A few weeks ago, in a conversation between Fierydemise, Haileaus, and myself, Fierydemise posited that the single best thing that an Assassination rogue could do for his/her raid team would be to forget optimizing and instead take that time to learn Subtlety. He suggested that the half hour that might be spent on messing with gems and enchantments would be better spent reading up on Subtlety and switching specs. Haileaus and I were both a little dubious on this and felt that there would be a bit of a learning curve to Subtlety that might cancel out any advantage. We all agreed that to only way to know for sure would be to test. Since I just don’t do Subtlety, I volunteered to lab rat.

What I did:
I switched my Assassination spec to Subtlety. I spent exactly half an hour prepping. And then I went to raid. It was an interesting and humbling experience and my conclusion is, much to my surprise, that we are really both right. I do think that there is enough to Fierydemise’s theory that I, an Assassination-lifer, will keep the Subtlety spec for now at least.

The Details:

• I carefully did no research or reading on Subtlety prior to this so all I knew was what was in my memory from trying it back in Cataclysm – which is to say, nothing useful.
• At 6:02 pm I went to the trainer and switched to Subtlety.
• I went to Wowhead and read over the Subtlety rotation section of the very pretty rogue guide.
• I then went to the Ravenholdt guide for Talents, Glyphs, multi-target rotation, and all of the finer details.
• I set up my bars.
• I set up a few macros (eg. macroing Shadow Reflection to Shadow Dance).
• I went to the training dummies just to make sure that my buttons were in usable places and that I hadn’t forgotten any.
• I did not touch my gear. My main gear was currently optimized for Combat and I switched out a few pieces when I went to Assassination – so it was a sort of hybrid setup. I had a two piece but not a four piece set.
• I did not touch my addons. I do run SliceCommander and it was already set up to track Slice and Dice and Rupture.
• At 6:32 I stopped messing with my spec. I even switched back to Combat to do my mine, and slaughtered the wee beasties with gleeful Killing Sprees so that I would have no additional practice or time to absorb what buttons were where.
• At 8:00 I went to raid. We did Heroic Hans’gar and Franzok (1 attempt as Subtlety then switched to Combat for the kill), Gruul, and Oregorger.

Impressions:
The Subtlety rotation is a whole lot less complicated than I was expecting. Significantly so. I realized that I had been pretty intimidated by it – and needlessly. I was remembering the last time I tried it, when Shadow Dance was a separate stance and the bars were a pain in the …neck to set up.

The positional requirement for Backstab is annoying – especially since I’m out of practice taking that into consideration. It’s not that bad on most bosses, but on trash when the mobs are all milling about any which way or on Hans’gar and Franzok when the bosses are bouncing around like jumping beans, it’s seriously inconvenient.

Much to my surprise, the Backstab icon being the same as the Dispatch icon really bugged me. A couple of times my brain actually hesitated and said, “No you idiot, don’t Dispatch now!” Apparently I’m really visually oriented. Who knew!

Hans’gar and Franzok: the rotation wasn’t bad but I found it a bit difficult to concentrate on a brand new (to me) rotation with all the movement. Knowing that the boss is fine for all three specs, I switched to Combat after we wiped.
Gruul: I had no trouble pulling top dps early on. It fell off a bit over time as movement increased but I really feel that with a bit of practice I can kick butt as Subtlety on this boss.
Oregorger: same impression as Gruul.

The Takeaway:
Subtlety has a bad reputation for being complex and difficult to master. My experience suggested that it is no more difficult than either Assassination or Combat. With all three specs the mastery is in the timing. Getting Subtlety’s subtleties right is probably no more difficult than controlling Insight optimally is for Combat.

Overall, yes, I think Fierydemise is right. I am surprised and happy to admit that my reservations were unfounded. I do think that Haileaus and I were correct in that it will take a bit more practice to see a really significant difference and to get comfortable with more movement while maintaining numbers – but it really was less of a big deal than I was expecting. With a little more practice, it will be a significant improvement. If anyone is thinking about making the switch, I’d maintain that Subtlety is no more complicated than Combat. It takes a little bit more focus between the positional requirement and no coffee break while you Killing Spree, but it is a not a stretch at all.

If you are on the fence about trying Subtlety, I say go for it. If I can do it, you can do it.

[EDITOR’S NOTE 1/7/15: The “FOOT IN MOUTH EDIT” section immediately below was written by Aeriwen on Jan. 6 and added to the top of this post at his request.]

BEGIN FOOT IN MOUTH EDIT:

I began by demonstrating that at least some very high end guilds were employing rogues for progression. But that wasn’t the focus of the topic which I wanted to address. The meat of the argument was that the general mythic population was utilizing rogues at a reasonable representation. There were concerns with my data, notably by the most respectable Fierydemise, that the later fights were harder and require more optimization to complete at the present gear levels and thus rogues were likely to be more of a liability going further into the tier, as most have only touched the “easy” bosses at that time. The point is a notable one, and still a point of concern, as you will see.

The crux of our “disagreement” depends on what is the most important behavior to which we should be concerned. Should we look at only what the top guilds are doing exactly when they kill the boss the first time, or should we look at the entire population also? I argued that for most players, even mythic raiders, the general trend of the total mythic population is more representative of what a rogue should expect when playing mythic with his/her guild. That the whacky things that world first race guilds do is an exceptional behavior, and not the rule.

I will admit that I am a bit stubborn. I have this notion that most players do not have multiple highly equipped characters and that even on the hardest difficulty, people just tend to play with their friends, not a specific class. I am a bit sappy sometimes. I do not apologize for that.

So now it is a week later. I was able to capture the first week of data, and now we have another week to compare it to. If indeed rogues are being sat, we might see at least some movement if the trend is significant. Keep in mind, the data is still very low quality, particularly on the later fights. There aren’t many guilds that have cleared the any mythic content, never mind the later bosses, and less of them have uploaded the data to warcraftlogs. We have to be very careful about what we can say with the data at hand.

Here’s the data. The overall data shows that rogues have 8.8% (1998 total) representation in the first week and 9.2% (4899 total) the second week. Rogues total about 6.6% of the population of level 100 US characters according to realmpop. This, as a side note, continues the trend of apparent overrepresentation of rogues in high end content from MoP.

So, let’s dig into the fights. Numbers are rogues as percent and (total).

Brackenspore
1st week – 7.0% (59)
2nd week – 9.1% (390)

Butcher
1st week – 3.7% (1)
2nd week – 8.9% (66)

Bladefist
1st week – 8.6% (1396)
2nd week – 8.8% (2751)

Ko’ragh
1st week – 7.3% (6)
2nd week – 10.5% (92)

Mar’gok
1st week – no data
2nd week – 8.3% (1)

Tectus
1st week – 8.8% (25)
2nd week – 9.4% (287)

Ogron
1st week – 9.6% (515)
2nd week – 9.9% (1294)

We see that rogue representation APPEARS to have increased. I would caution that the numbers on all but bladefist were fairly small to begin with, which limits what we can say. And some of the later fights on the second week are still extremely low in numbers.

What it does SEEM to say is that rogues are being used fairly widely in mythic, at levels beyond our overall class representation. Someone is being sat. It is just not rogues who are doing the sitting.

We have some problems here though, besides the low sample size, which may just have swung in our favor due to random chance. There were slight buffs to each spec’s niche moving into the second week, which could have incentivized more people to play their rogues. It could also be that more rogues were ran in the second week because they weren’t used for the progression fight. We can’t really say without armory datamining. It could also lend credence to the idea that groups with rogues were behind because they lack the dps for kills the first week, and another week of gearing lead the groups to second week kills. The difference between swapping a strong dps like windwalker in instead of a rogue would result in a small difference in raid dps, much smaller than that of simple getting a week’s worth of gear for your entire raid.

One thing that I want to make sure to be clear, these are still very low number samples. And after talking with members of the high end raiding community, we may end up seeing the true impact on the next raid. The rogues that are geared up now and progressing right now may only be doing so simply because they haven’t had time to level and gear an alt to sub out their geared rogue. As the tier continues, more alts can be geared to reasonable levels before progression begins anew in January on the next raid. As such, representation may be a lagging indicator.

This is all firmly in the realm of speculation. No matter how well reasoned or authoritative the source. If it turns out that confidence in rogues does not meet expectations, we may see a drop as players switch to other specs for the next tier. But we also have conflating factors on the horizon as well. The new tier will likely bring out more tuning adjustment, as well as the very important tier bonuses and other itemization quirks to which all the classes are balanced against. For instance, the tier bonuses for combat are projected to be on the order of 5%. Where that stands in relation to other dps specs remains to be seen.

And to absolutely clear, there is no evidence, nor any speculation from high end raiders that you should be sitting rogues for the average guild. If you are in your average guild and killing tougher bosses maybe one or two a week and progressing through normal, heroic and into mythic, you need not be concerned. Your progression will happen naturally as the result of gear inflation and as your raid gets better experienced on the fights. The vast majority of rogues need not be concerned with getting sat unless you have a guild leader who thinks he’s a world first raider and treats the raid members as such. (This simply indicates that you should probably change guilds.) This is something that many high end raiders will say themselves. If you are in an average guild, don’t worry about it.

For next time, I’ll continue to look at representation as the tier progresses, but I’ll also take a look at recruitment trends.

What we do have now, is what appears to be solid representation, and according to the latest hotfixes, and the watchful eyes of the devs, a reason to be hopeful for the future. Take heart rogues, and have a happy holiday.

Happy Stabbing! 🙂

Want to talk about this post? Head over to its dedicated forum thread!

This guide was written by Sativ. If you’d like to seem more by Sativ check him out on Youtube and on Twitter.

The 6.0.2 Warlords of Draenor Pre-Patch is here: There have been drastic changes to the game in this patch. So lets start with breaking down the changes to the game in general. Then move onto Rogues: There will be a Video covering all this linked at the END of these posts.

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Game Mechanic Changes: MoP->6.0
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Stat Squish: 500k~ Health Pools to 70k~

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_entry_media/UWOGFNFX8ACJ1393539234638.jpg


• Basically this means health pools and damage have been squished down to early Cataclysm numbers.
• While this might feel confusing at lvl 90. Health is considerably higher at level 100. So don’t get too comfortable.

Game Responsiveness: Faster Server to Client Interaction

• In the past: data was sent and received in batches of 400ms(Milliseconds)

Basically in a situation where you Gouge a druid Cyclone Cast: There’s a 400 millisecond window of opportunity where your action and his action can both be registered at the same time. Leaving you Cycloned and the Druid Gouged.

• In 6.0.2 and onward: Data is accepted as soon as it arrives. Which is generally 1-10ms according to Celestalon

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13087818929?page=6#114

This means it’s still possible for that situation to occur. Only it’s much less likely
It also effects other players position on your client in relation to their position on the server. Making those ‘I’m on top of you but out of range?’ situations rarer.
Additional Information about how this effects various aspects of Gameplay can be found here (By NCPRicket)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj8SUETfb1I

Agility in Warlords: No longer grants Critical Strike Chance, Less Attack Power 

• In warlords all main stats have been homogenized to be slightly less effective and shifted some of that strength into secondary stats.

Each point of Agility or Strength now grants 1 Attack Power (down from 2). 
Attack Power now increases Weapon Damage at a rate of 1 DPS per 3.5 Attack Power (up from 1 DPS per 14 Attack Power)

Hit and Expertise Removed: 

• All Hit and Expertise on your gear has been turned into Haste
• All characters now have a 100% chance to hit, 0% chance to be dodged, 3% chance to be parried,
• Dual Wielding still imposes a 19% chance to miss, to balance it with two-handed weapon use.*

*This only effects auto attacks.

Changes to PvP

• Base Resilience has been reduced to 0%.
• Battle Fatigue has been reduced to 20% (down from 60%).
• Critical Damage and Critical Heals in PvP combat now deal 150% of the normal spell/ability effects (down from 200%)
• Multistrikes can only Trigger Once instead of Twice

Racial Traits
There’s been a lot of changes to Racial in Warlords of Draenor I suggest you view the patch notes, as they would clog up this post.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15682579/602-ptr-patch-notes-sep-18-9-18-2014#racials

I’ve also made my own Video about Racials from a PvP Rogue Perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aku82__mrRI&list=PLBMButhAK6tt8Fo3R2E4JqD8UVKCCUiTr

Professions

• They have removed the direct combat benefits of Professions.
• There is no Best Profession for PvP or PvE anymore

Well that’s the basics of things you’ll notice for the next month at level 90 in relation to Game Mechanics. Lets move onto Rogues.

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Rogue Related Changes: MoP->6.0
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Combo Points

• Combo Points for Rogues are now shared across all targets and they are no longer lost when switching targets.
• Redirect has been removed.

At long last brothers and sisters- we’ve got combos not restricted to a single target. Much like any skilled Assassin.

Abilities Pruning

• Disarm Trap has been removed(*).
• Mind Numbing Poison has been Removed(*)
• Shadow Blades has been removed.
• Shadow Walk has been removed.
• Fan of Knives is no longer available to Combat Rogues.
• Rupture is no longer available to Combat Rogues.

• Tricks of the Trade now has no energy cost and no longer increases damage caused by the target by 15%.

(*)All Similar effects have been stripped from other Classes

Ability Refinement

• Swiftblade’s Cunning now grants 5% Haste & Multstrike (instead of 10% attack speed)
• A lot of Passive effects you’re used to seeing in your spell book have been merged into the abilities they effected
• Examples include Find Weakness, Master of Subtlety, Venomous Wounds, and Blindside.
• Unless otherwise stated in Patch Notes. All Rogue passives remain intact.

Talents and Glyphs

• Subterfuge has been reworked

Instead of allowing you to remain in stealth. You instead gain access to your Stealth Skill-set for 3 seconds. Making you vulnerable to peels. But stills relatively easy to get your opener, or multiple openers off

• Burst of Speed now 30 Energy. (up from 15)

This makes Burst of Speed way weaker when you tunnel vision a target. But still extremely strong for restealthing, or escaping enemies

• Deadly Throw only interrupts at 5 combo points
• Cheat Death now procs at 7% (down from 10%)
• Leeching Poison’s Shiv effect was nerfed but the direct healing was raised by 5%
• Paralytic Poison replaced by Internal Bleeding which places a strong bleed on the target when they are stunned with Kidney Shot.

• As for Glyphs we do not have access to the three new options. So keep utilizing what you have been in the past, or explore new options!

Specialization Changes
Specs generally play the same with the exception of damage being shifted to or from abilties, changing the priority of them. This thread is aimed at covering what’s changed. Not Explaining how to play each spec.

Assassination

• Rupture Ticks vs Poisoned Targets now have 100% Chance to Generate 10 Energy
• Envenom now increases Poison Application rate by 30% (up from 15%)
• Wound Poison’s Direct Damage is higher than Deadly Poison. Making it more burst Damage

These three changes alone make Assassination a lot smoother and comfortable to play. Once you gain access to Perks at level 100 the spec becomes one of strongest and easier to play of the three Rogue Specs

Combat

• Main Gauche now hits with your Off-Hand Weapon. Making two slow 2.6 weapons important for Combat Rogues
• Revealing Strike no longer advances Bandit’s Guile

in the past players would use Revealing Strike to quickly advance to Deep Insight as it was a cheaper alternative to Sinister Strike

• Killing Spree no Longer Increases all Damage done by 50%

Killing Sprees damage has been increased to compensate. Though this hurts combat’s overall pressure out side of Deep Insight All in all combat has a very similar flow to it. Though It depends a lot more on Deep Insight now due to the Killing Spree ‘nerf’

Subtlety

• Sinister Calling: Now causes successful Multistrikes with Backstab or Ambush to advance your Bleeds by 2 seconds, casusing them to instantly deal damage
• Ambush can now be used from any position. Yes that means FACE AMBUSH! HIYA!
• Backstab’s positional requirement has been loosened. Though still can’t be used from the front
• [Cloak and Dagger] once again is working with Shadow Dance
• Rupture’s Damage is a lot stronger and should be utilized for more than Sanguinary Vein

All in all the only note worthy change here is how much Damage Rupture deals… It’s very strong at level 100 and I assume the same for 90s.

As this guide is designed to be quick and simple: I’ve also included a video covering the entirety of these posts as well as a bit more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7I21nZUb_A

-This video is going live Tuesday the 14th- Though is viewable from the direct link exclusive for the next few hours here on Ravenholdt.

Thanks for Reading.