World of Warcraft: Classic is here. Check out the resources below. If a Classic rogue guide or resource that you like isn’t listed, let us know.
All you need in one place:
More:
World of Warcraft: Classic is here. Check out the resources below. If a Classic rogue guide or resource that you like isn’t listed, let us know.
All you need in one place:
More:
Battle for Dazar’alor is the second raid in Battle for Azeroth. The raid covers a lot of different fighting styles, pure Single Target (ST), small and medium cleave, as well as an actual two target encounter. Depending on the actual amount of cleave, this raid suits Assassination more than the other two specs. Subtlety might not be too bad either, especially on the ST oriented fights in the raid. High downtime obviously favors Sin more and hurts Sub a lot.
Usually the number of adds spawning, the interval in between spawns, and their health pools will determine what traits you’re going to run. For example, for Assassination, Shrouded Suffocation won’t be good if adds die in a few seconds because Garrote won’t tick more than 2-3 times. Echoing Blades is most likely not a thing, since it barely does any damage unless you fight huge packs. Scent of Blood might find a spot on longer cleave fights. Other than that we’re most likely looking at the usual ones, Double Dose, Twist the Knife and the new trait, Nothing Personal.
In terms of Subtlety traits, it’s most likely gonna be a mix of traits, depending on the fight.
All of the info in this guide is subject to change, I will update it as soon as something changes! Some of the stuff will be coming after the actual release of the raid, since I haven’t been able to test bosses properly yet. I’ll add details asap!
Updated 29th January 2019
Before I go further into all the fights and what traits/talents etc to use, here is a list of the abbreviations I will use throughout the guide.
TTK – Twist the Knife
SoB – Scent of Blood
SS – Shrouded Suffocation
DD – Double Dose
NP – Nothing Personal
TC – Treacherous Covenant
Inev – Inevitability
TFD – The first dance
EB – Echoing Blades
BitS – Blade in the Shadows
PB – Poison Bomb
CT – Crimson Tempest
TB – Toxic Blade
MA – Master Assassin
Subt – Subterfuge
WM – Weaponmaster
FW – Find Weakness
DS – Deeper Stratagem
MFD – Marked for Death
ES – Enveloping Shadows
SecTec – Secret Technique
MoSh – Master of Shadows
Champion of the Light – Small Cleave (Low HP adds)
Grong – Small Cleave (1 Add periodically, high focus)
Jadefire Masters – 2T Cleave
Opulence – Pure ST (Addwaves on the actual boss, nothing to focus on)
Conclave of the Chosen – Multitarget fight, however bosses heal to full after killing one aspect
King Rastakhan – Medium Cleave (Add phases, multiple adds + high hp)
Mekkatorque – Pure ST
Stormwall Blockade – ST (Split ships, Add spawns)
Jaina – Pure ST
The general type of gear you’ll hunt won’t change compared to Uldir, you still want haste, especially with the loss of the Reorigination Array (750 haste @10stacks) , but also depending on your current gear, your talents and your traits, stat weights will change. However, you can pretty safely say, haste >crit/mastery is your go to stats priority, just as usual. Going beyond that, we’ll look at trinkets/Azerite items. With BoD you’ll have a raid where every single boss drops an azerite item, which really helps getting at least some of them.
So, regarding Azerite items first, here’s a list of them in terms of strength:
UPDATE: With the fixed simc values of the Nothing Personal trait, some azerite items might have increased in value.
Helmet:
Shoulder:
Chest:
Trinkets:
In terms of trinkets you can always check herodamage.com to have an overview of how much a trinket is roughly worth, however to be sure you should always sim your own character to be sure if it’s an upgrade or not. There’s a total of 3 trinkets in this raid, all 3 being pretty solid and one being top end even.
Kimbul’s Razor Claw: Bleeds your target for some good damage, while having a nice little side effect with the leech if you’re behind your target.
Variable Intensity Gigavolt Oscillator Reactor: Crit cycle trinket, really good overall trinket, definitely worth picking it up
Invocation of Yu’lon: On use damage dealing trinket, pretty mid-tier, nothing fancy.
Other than that, the usual trinkets come into play: Harlan’s Loaded Dice, Lustrous Golden Plumage, Doom’s Wake, Galecaller’s Boon, Dead-eye Spyglass.
The new trait, Keep Your Wits About You, allows some interesting gear choices on aoe content, but our ST choices in this tier are quite clear. Additionally the new ring allows us to stack our 2 strongest class traits (Ace up your sleeve, Deadshot), and further pushes down any of the off-BIS traits since they do not stack as well with the BIS ones. This means you will generally aim for traits with Deadshot and/or ace on them or wits for cleave/aoe. Remember that you only need/want 1 wits piece for BF enabled content. As always, sim yourself!
Here’s the Outlaw Azerite Armor list for Battle of Dazar’alor ranked:
Helmet:
Shoulder:
Chest:
Keep in mind that this list does not include dungeon gear, and any dungeon piece you find can shift the piece you want to aim for in raid.
Trinkets:
In terms of trinkets you can always check herodamage.com to have an overview of how much a trinket is roughly worth, however to be sure you should always sim your own character to be sure if it’s an upgrade or not.
Kimbul’s Razor Claw: Bleeds your target for some good damage, while having a nice little side effect with the leech if you’re behind your target. Thanks to our innate haste bonus from alacrity this trinket is extremely strong and BIS by a significant margin. However this trinket does become worse as the target count increases which can cause other trinkets to surpass it for dungeons or cleave/aoe raid fights.
Variable Intensity Gigavolt Oscillator Reactor: Good trinket, comparable to many of the normally recommended dungeon trinkets.
Invocation of Yu’lon: A mid-tier trinket with the added problem that it gets worse as the target count increases due to splitting damage.
Due to the new version of The First Dance for Sub, Haste is no longer a thing really. The ~1.1k Haste you get is all you need to perform well. Other than that your focus is on Crit + Mastery/Vers, while pretty much ignoring Haste. If you’re really unlucky and you can’t get your hands on even one of the TFD traits, you might want some Haste to make your gameplay smooth and enjoyable. As always, sim yourself!
Moving forward, here’s the Subtlety Azerite Armor list for this tier:
Helmet:
Shoulder:
Chest:
Have in mind, this list might not be the same for you, as it heavily depends on the amount of Inevitability and TFD traits you already got, since the first of both has a lot more value than the second and third one, due to the additional effect.
Trinkets:
In terms of trinkets you can always check herodamage.com to have an overview of how much a trinket is roughly worth, however to be sure you should always sim your own character to see if it’s an upgrade or not. There’s a total of 3 trinkets in this raid: Oscillator Reactor and Kimbul’s are both a really good pickup, with several dungeon trinkets being ahead or close to those. Invocation is rather mid-tier here, so try to avoid it if you can, unless you really haven’t got anything better.
Kimbul’s Razor Claw: Bleeds your target for some good damage, while having a nice little side effect with the leech if you’re behind your target.
Variable Intensity Gigavolt Oscillator Reactor: Crit cycle trinket, really good overall trinket, definitely worth picking it up
Invocation of Yu’lon: On use damage dealing trinket, pretty mid-tier, nothing fancy.
Other than that, the usual trinkets come into play: Harlan’s Loaded Dice, Lustrous Golden Plumage, Doom’s Wake, Galecaller’s Boon, Dead-eye Spyglass.
Next up, we’re going over into the talent section. For Assassination, the builds are rather standard. Either TB or Exsanguinate – Subterfuge or MA. TB provides more frequent burst windows, due to the lower cooldown and high average. Exsanguinate has insanely high burst windows if paired with several SS traits and Subterfuge, however a non-buffed Exsang is rather weak. Subterfuge also has some great value for Multitarget fights, whereas MA is pretty much pure ST and a really uncommon choice.
So the standard cookie cutter build is like this: 2212021 or 2212031 if you’re into Exsang. Sim yourself to know which one works better and compare it to the fight you’re about to do. E.g. a fight like Vectis favors TB a lot more due to more frequent add spawns, even though Exsang might be slightly higher for you personally.
There aren’t really any bosses that require a different talent build, there’s not enough AoE to make CT viable and everything else, be it ST or Cleave is done with one of the 2 standard builds. Grong might favor TB over Exsang, due to more frequent add spawns that have a high priority.
For outlaw you will be using the general cookie cutter builds for most fights 211XX22 or 212XX22 with enough ace traits. That being said Killing spree likely will see use on fights with add waves for the added burst as well as on Jadefire Masters where you can use it to generate wits stacks. As for the Slice and Dice it is still terrible, and the new set bonus from Jaina is not sufficient to make it good.
Update: With the nerf to TFD, the amount of talent choices has gone down a bit. WM and FW being really close, it’s down to personal preference mostly, with FW being a better choice if you can funnel damage into one target while abusing adds, like on Zul. Nightstalker has pretty much no scenario anymore, apart from AoE and “maybe” with 2 TFD + 1 BitS, other than that I think Shadow Focus just wins. Deeper Stratagem and Marked for Death are down to personal preference again, but also what kind of fight it is, MFD might come ahead a lot if there are some adds to use it on a lot. Looking at the Level 90 row, it’s Enveloping Shadows vs Dark Shadow, both being really good, Dark Shadow is usually picked up if you have some kind of aoe during the fight and/or you need higher on demand burst. Both talents might see some kind of play during this tier. For the last row, it’s usually MoSh, however higher AoE fights definitely make SecTec a good choice, probably not this tier though.
The usual “cookie cutter” build here is the following: 2322031 , but have in mind that different encounters can change this build really quickly.
Looking specifically at bosses, most fights will be done with the standard build, however you can swap to something like Dark Shadow instead of ES for higher burst on Grong add spawns, Dark Shadow for Champion of the Light (Maybe even SecTec if your group has trouble killing off the adds), maybe also on Conclave, but that’s about it. I’ll update if I have a different opinion after heroic week.
With the addition of the 5th ring on Azerite items, this opens up a lot of space for new combinations. SS + SoB for cleave fights, DD + NP/TTK for pure ST and so on. Since BoD has a lot of ST oriented fights, DD/NP/TTK and the new Raid Trait Treacherous Covenant (Have in mind the 2nd effect where you take additional damage) will have very high value. Even though some bosses have the possibility of having some cleave, most of it won’t be worth to focus on. Surely, having a second Rupture up on a target will have some nice value in terms of energy returns, but it might be only that, without any effective damage done. Therefor, most bosses will end up using DD + NP/TC combinations, maybe 1 TTK for the effect and only a few will see SS traits, with even less seeing any use of Scent of Blood.
So, regarding the specific bosses (this is not tested, just an assumption):
Champion of the Light: 1 SS might find some value for the phase where you actually hit adds. Otherwise focus on DD/NP/TC
Grong: Definitely high ST focus, DD/NP/TC combinations all the way
Jadefire Masters: Depending on the actual outcome of the fight, how close they are being tanked and so on, you might find use for 2 or even 3 SS with TC/NP, I doubt 2 targets will make SoB a thing already
Opulence: 100% ST, DD/NP/TC, no reason to use any aoe traits, even for the “add” phases
Conclave: Spread targets, small adds throughout the fight, multiple SS traits possible, depends on the actual add hp, how spread they are and so on, otherwise just focus mainly on ST again.
King Rastakhan: Definitely worth picking multiple SS traits here, Add Phase in P1, Add Phase in P3, so there’s definitely room for SS, while still being competitive on ST in the other 2 phases.
Mekkatorque: Full ST, nothing else to worry about
Stormwall Blockade: Full ST again
Jaina: Another Full ST fight
Update: TC nerf doesn’t change a lot, it’s still a really good trait, probably top 3 even post nerf. Have in mind that you might not have close to 100% uptime on some fights. But as you can see, there’s not a lot of room for cleave traits, surely they might see some use here and there, but the main part of the raid is gonna focus on ST.
Coming soon!
Update: With the amount of ST fights in BoD, your trait choices will mostly be around that type of fight. That being said and the class tuning being in now, you’re most likely looking at MAX 1 TFD, since the 2nd and 3rd one will have a lot less value and could be covered by better traits. 1 BitS has a lot of value and as I said in the talent section already, might be needed if you want to make NS work. 1 Inev is definitely a must have. Apart from that, Perforate (with the right talent build), Night’s Vengeance and TC are the traits you’re looking to get in the new raid.
Specifically about the bosses in BoD:
Champion of the Light: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations
Grong:1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations
Jadefire Masters: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations
Opulence: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations
Conclave: Might see some use of Replicating Shadows even, otherwise just focus on ST
King Rastakhan: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations, maybe 1 RS/NV
Mekkatorque: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations
Stormwall Blockade: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations
Jaina: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations
In terms of traits, Subtlety doesn’t have a big difference, since the strength definitely is in the ST area which you should be focusing on. I highly doubt any of the AoE/Cleave traits will make the difference, it will mainly be in your choice of talents.
Champion of the Light:
Grong:
Jadefire Masters:
Opulence:
Conclave:
King Rastakhan: Most of this is based on the assumption of the P2 strategy that has all melee upstairs, and ranged stacking downstairs at the door
Mekkatorque: Use Spark Bots for additional ressources on Normal/Heroic, only if close in range. Have a Step ready for the Wormhole phase.Other than that, there’s nothing special to do.
Stormwall Blockade: Reapply dots when they swap positions on the boats. For most add spawns, you won’t have to hit them or only slightly. You might want to save a vanish for later spawns if it gets a bit messy and hectic to ensure that those adds won’t reach the boss. Pretty straight forward apart from that, hit the boss and don’t get hit.
Jaina: Nothing really special, Dot blocks/barrels for additional ressources/energy returns. Cloak Ring of Ice to stick to the boss a bit more. Maybe save the 2nd cloak for the intermission so you can speed run to one of the further images and interrupt that while not getting frozen. Dot the Water elemental a bit while you’re running down for extra energy in p3.
To be honest, most fights are pretty straight forward and don’t give a lot of options to do something special. Especially on heroic I haven’t gotten the possibility yet to test around different traits, setups etc. Will update this every now and then when I come across something new!
Update: With the recent Sub nerf on TFD and Sin being untouched, Sin will be the clear winner of this tier again. Sub might still see some value on ST fights, will see how Mythic ends up being. Outlaw has good potential on Jaina due to the ability of cleaving the Ice Blocks nicely and even gain ST from it due to the Wits trait. Personally, the only bosses where I could see Sub having value are Grong, Opulence (Shs->Evis during add waves) and maybe Stormwall Blockade.
Battle for Dazar’alor is looking to be a great tier for rogues, opening a lot of trait combinations that will make the playstyle a lot better. Also the fighting styles you’re coming up against look like rogues will find a lot of value, not only in the regard of soaking stuff, like on Jadefire Masters. ST and Cleave fights definitely are the area of Assassination, with Subtlety having a shot at pure ST fights. With the release of the tier in the next few days and Mythic starting the week after, I will try to update this guide as soon as possible, with talent/trait choices, but also with any small things I can find, that might give you an edge over others.
About the Author
My name is Tisumi, former Moderator of the Rogue Discord (Ravenholdt) and Raider in Myst on Draenor (~#50 World). I’m currently playing rogue, while focusing on Sub/Sin mostly. I will try to cover as much as possible in terms of gear, traits, maximizing DPS in general and maybe some special tactics in the new upcoming raid. During the first few weeks I will mainly focus on whichever spec is best for that specific encounter, however I will update it to cover all specs later on when I get the chance to play it. To have a second opinion, I will have Seliathan (Multiple R1’s and world firsts in M+ during Legion and BFA and currently in Familiar with Drama) to go over everything with me. For the Outlaw things I got some help from Loktark, also former Shadowblade on Ravenholdt, author of the Ravenholdt Outlaw guide, and a big community figure, especially among the Outlaw players.
For any further questions or feedback, feel free to PM me or Seli on discord: Tisumi#6156 // Seliathan/Incarnated#3477
Welcome to the All in One Mythic Guide to Zul in the Uldir raid! This guide should sort you out with most if not all things Mythic Zul. If you have any questions feel free to ask in the #subtlety channel in the Ravenholdt discord.
This strategy is significantly nerfed come 8.1, Subtlety Rogue is receiving several heavy nerfs across the class due to its potential to cheese this fight.
Shuriken Combo was removed making eviscerate hit 28.5% less, with a 24.3% buff given to Shuriken Storms damage; Both of these changes are bad because it kills crawgs faster, and priority target slower; On Zul however eviscerate isnt your only ability, so this change is only a 20% nerf to priority target damage.
While sub rogues are still the strongest at priority damage, they have been brought more in line to other classes.
The First Dance was changed to become a haste buff instead of a crit buff, which makes it fairly useless for Zul compared to its Crit iteration. This trait could even be potentially harmful as it could switch your reorigination array to haste from mastery.
Read about the comprehensive changelog here.
TLDR: Nerfs to priority target damage, increase to AoE cleave, the Sub Rogue Zul strategy will no longer be as strong of a strategy come 8.1
To sim for Zul, do 6 Target Patchwerk, the time depends on your raid group but it’s typically 3-4 minutes. 6 Target removes the multi-dotting condition, you’ll have consistent adds, and there are no meaningful mechanics besides DPS for sub rogues.
However, even that comes with a few quirks and differences to the typical Zul playstyle (e.g. Night’s Vengeance simming at more value than it “should” because it automatically causes multi-dotting). This means you can put priority_rotation=1
into the Custom APL box on Raidbots and use it on Top Gear, Gear Compare etc. Using this plus the usual 6T 4min sim, the sim should match Zul better.
Stat priority:
Mastery >> Critical Strike/Versatility >Haste
Talents: 2120013
Azerite: Archive of the Titans is extremely strong here; typically stat increase traits like Agi/Mastery/Crit will have strong value. Sub doesn’t really have any strong “AoE” traits, so you have to si your combinations using the settings in the previous section to be sure.
Raid keeps the crawgs alive so Sub Rogues can tunnel and burn Zul with Shuriken Storm/Shuriken Combo
Rotation is
Tips
Opener
Basically the same as the rotation but it goes as follows:
Potion/Shadow Blades > Shadowstrike > Nightblade> tornado > SoD/ShD > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > ShD> Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm
Screenshot of opener and how it relates to the rotation
1) Applied find weakness through vanish/stealth only.
2) Kept up Nightblade and did not refresh inside ShD.
3) Delayed SoD/ShD by a gcd to not waste a GCD in dance.
4) Went into ShD on high combo points to get 3 eviscerates in ShD instead of just 2.
Note: the single Shuriken Storms are from tornado and the double ones are from when Shuriken Storm is cast by the player, it’s formatted that way in WCL.
(These are Wowhead articles featuring a Ravenholdt expert panel)
These bare-bones guides, written by Fuu, provide basic recommendations on optimal talents and DPS rotations to use in end-game raiding during the Battle for Azeroth. We’ll post more comprehensive spec guides for Level 120 end-game as we get closer to the official BfA launch on Aug. 14.
Also take a look at our BfA/8.0.1 “What’s Changing” post, which includes a bunch of links to additional guides and other resources.
3210021
2210021 – Pre patch. T1 Talents are close so best is to sim all 3.
2210023 – standard AoE
2230023 – with resets
Fan of Knives (2+ targets OR at full stacks of Hidden Blades) > Mutilate
*additional requirements in the Notes section
Crimson Tempest* > Rupture* > Envenom
*additional requirements in the Notes section
pre-pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion
pull:
Garrote – Mutilate – Mutilate – Rupture – Vendetta – Toxic Blade -…- Vanish – Garrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote
*replace the first Builder after Vendetta with Fan of Knives if you use Hidden Blades.
pre-pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion
pull:
Garrote (up to 3 targets) – Build to 4+- Crimson Tempest – Build to 4+- Rupture – Vendetta – Toxic Blade -…- Vanish – Garrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote
Use Marked for Death on low Combo Points.
Use Vendetta on cooldown.
Use Vanish if Garrote has ~6 seconds left .
Use Toxic Blade on cooldown.
Use Blindside if you have a proc and not on full cp, always below 30%.
Use Garrote if it has ~6 secs left (and is not empowered) and you are not on full cp.
Use Garrote if it has ~1 secs left.
Use Finisher According to Finisher priority with 4+ Combo Points.
Use Builder According to Builder priority with less then full Combo Points.
Crimson Tempest – refresh with 2 or less seconds remaining.
Rupture – refresh with less then ~5-7 seconds remaining.
Rupture – on all Targets.
Garrote – on all Targets.
2010022
2010023 – for pre patch ONLY under the condition that you use Mantle of the master Assassin and T21 4p (likely without T20).
2010022 – default choice
2010021 – alternative
Pistol Shot* > Sinister Strike
*additional requirements in the Notes section
Roll the Bones* > Between the Eyes* > Dispatch
*additional requirements in the Notes section
Grand Melee or Ruthless Precision or any 2+ buffs.
pre-pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion, Adrenalin Rush
Note: Adrenalin Rush will put you out of stealth, you can enter stealth or open with Sinister Strike.
pull:
Ambush – build to 5+ – Roll the Bones
*use Blade Rush after Ambush on 2+ targets
Use Adrenaline Rush on cooldown.
Use Marked for Death on low Combo Points.
Use Blade Flurry on 2+ targets.
Use Blade Rush on cooldown in single target
Use Blade Rush during Blade Flurry on 2+ targets.
Use Finisher according to Finisher priority if you have 5 Points. Reduce the Amount by 1 if Broadside or Opportunity is up(by 2 if both are up).
Use Builder according to the Builder priority with less then full Combo Points.
Pistol Shot – only if it procs and you have 4 or less cp.(3 when Broadside or Opportunity is up, 2 if both are up)
Roll the Bones – refresh if less then 3 seconds remaining or you have the wrong buffs (see reroll logic)
Between the Eyes – only if Ruthless Precision is up
Vanish – utility cooldown without Mantle of the master Assassin
Vanish – Use it before KS/BR if you use Mantle of the master Assassin
2330031
2320012
Shuriken Storm (3+ targets) > Shadowstrike > Shuriken Storm (2 targets) > Backstab
Nightblade* (Not during Shadow Dance) > Secret Technique* (during Symbols of Death) > Eviscerate
*additional requirements in the Notes section
Nightblade* (Not during Shadow Dance) > Secret Technique* > Eviscerate
*additional requirements in the Notes section
pre pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion, Shadow Blades
pull:
Shadowstrike – Nightblade – Symbols of Death – Shadow Dance – Shadowstrike – Shadowstrike – Eviscerate – Shadowstrike – Shadowstrike – Eviscerate – Shadow Dance…
*use Secret Technique instead of the first Evi if you have it talented
pre pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion, Shadow Blades
pull:
Shadowstrike – Nightblade – Symbols of Death – Shadow Dance
Shadowstrike/Shuriken Storm depending on target count.
Finish with 5+. Use Secret Technique as first Finisher in dance, Eviscerate for the following.
Use Symbols of Death on CD.
Use Marked for Death on low Combo Points.
Use Shadow Blades on CD.
Use Vanish with 1 or less secounds of Find Weakness remaining.
Use Shadow Dance with 2 or less Combo Points when Symbols of Death is up.
Use Shadow Dance with 2 or less Combo Points when you are about to cap on charges.
Use Finisher according to Finisher priority if you have 4+ Combo Points(MfD) or 5+ with (DS).
Use Builder according to the Builder priority with less then full Combo Points.
Nightblade – refresh it with less then 4,2 sec remaining (Mfd) or less then 4,8 sec remaining (DS).
Nightblade (exception) – refresh it shortly before symbols comes up if the duration is to low(less then remaining cooldown + 10).
Nightblade – on all targets if they survive for 12+ secounds.
Secret Technique – Preferably use during Shadow Dance, use on CD with more targets due to cdr.
Rotation and Talent choice can be slightly different in the pre-patch.
Talents are distinguished by talent number in row order. 0 signifies free choice.
NOTE: The shown talent is an Example, the talent for your specification can be found in the Talent section of each spec.
Therefore if the talents are listed as:
that means that you need to pick:
Ahoy! I am Don Jose#9643, one of the moderators of the Ravenholdt Discord community. With the release of allied races and the revamp of the level-up experience (increased mob hp, zone scaling, higher xp requirements to level, etc.) we’ve been fielding a lot of questions about the level-up experience for rogues. This document is a TL;DR “guide” of 1-90. Bear in mind this content is purely my opinion.
During the level-up experience rogues lack real AoE tools until level 63 and are strongest in 1v1 situations. You want to use Sap, Blind, Cheap Shot, and Gouge to try and even the odds if you find yourself facing a 2 or 3 pull. Even at level 63, your energy regeneration might not be enough to solidly sustain AoE. Begin combat from Stealth whenever possible, and remember that you won’t get Vanish until level 48. Bummer.
My pick for a leveling spec:
Talents
15: Gloomblade or Master of Subtlety (see Advice below)
30: Nightstalker
45: Vigor
60: Soothing Darkness
75: Strike from the Shadows
90: Dark Shadow (burst) usually, or Enveloping Shadows (tough mobs)
Pluses
Fantastic burst
Great passive self-heals and healing between pulls
Superior mobility
Fast play
Against 2+ mobs, Shadow Dance gives you another burst/stealth phase.
At level 42 Shadowstrike ports you to your target – great mobility!
Minuses
Against mighty mobs, might fall behind Assassination or Outlaw
Backstab is often weak while soloing unless you waste time stunning/controlling mobs
Advice
In my opinion, Subtlety is the most versatile and fun leveling spec. It has great burst and mobility. If mobs survive your initial burst, Gloomblade will be the best option, as you likely won’t be able to Backstab them without juggling CCs-all of which is a waste of time if you could just kill them with a Gloomblade.
Talents
15: Quick Draw
30: Hit and Run. Grappling Hook has a lot of pathing issues, but if you’re in flat areas it’s probably more useful.
45: Vigor
60: Iron Stomach
75: Any, but I preferred Dirty Tricks
90: Killing Spree for solo, Cannonball Barrage for dungeons
Pluses
Great at slowing runners (Pistol Shot, Between the Eyes)
Ranged stun with Between the Eyes
Sustained damage
Superior ranged if necessary (Pistol Shot/Between the Eyes)
Grappling Hook is solid mobility if pathing issues don’t occur (flat terrain)
Bribe is awesome if it works
Minuses
Overall inferior mobility – Outlaw rogues have to talent Grappling Hook – Assassination and Subtlety get Shadowstep baseline
Crimson Vial is a reliable on-demand heal, but costs energy. All three specs have Crimson Vial, but the other two have additional healing options (Leeching Poison/Soothing Darkness)
Inferior burst to Subtlety
Generally “slow” play until Roll the Bones at level 40, and then play becomes RNG-based
Advice
You want to be sure to Ambush from stealth and use Saber Slash to get to a 5 combo point Run Through. Only use Pistol Shot for its slow or on Opportunity procs (free use). Use Between the Eyes as a stun or a ranged hit. Use/abuse Bribe at level 54; this can actually be a mighty tool! Once you unlock Roll the Bones, maintain a buff as much as possible, but don’t waste energy re-rolling.
Talents
15: Master Poisoner – this boosts Leeching Poison (see level 60)
30: Nightstalker for speed or 1v1 or Subterfuge for strong mobs and 1v2/3
45: Vigor
60: Leeching Poison
75: Any, depending on your playstyle
90: Toxic Blade
Pluses
Heavy DoT damage can serve as prolonged AoE
Has decent mobility with Shadowstep
Can DoT from ranged
Advice
If you insist on leveling as Assassination, wait until level 36 for Envenom.
A note about Dungeons:
At the time of writing this, I haven’t tried low level dungeons since the changes hit, but I’ve heard that they now take longer and yield less XP than questing, on average. If you opt to run dungeons, know that your trash damage is going to be less than many other specs. As Assassination you can experiment with multi-dotting mobs, but overall you will probably just do better focusing on one target at a time. Your time to shine is against bosses. At level 63 this may pick up significantly. If you have experience with the 63-100 level range let me know!
In the past, websites, forums, and IRC were the primary sources of information about World of Warcraft, along with word-of-mouth. When Discord launched it quickly became the go-to resource for game communities. There was no manual–we were all pioneers as users and leaders of the platform. Over the past year we have learned a lot about the strengths and weaknesses of Discord as a chat client that is different/unique from anything that came before it.
Recently there has been a lot of discussion amongst the Ravenholdt moderation team as to how we could improve, and how class Discords in general could improve. I decided to write this guide because there is still a large volume of users that plunge into the deep end of Discord and are overwhelmed. They don’t know the basics and standards across Discords–and, in some cases, there aren’t standards–and feel nervous about asking for help or don’t understand how to find the information they need. On the flipside, the community feels exhausted (especially around patch/ptr update days) by the sheer volume of identical questions they get every day.
In this guide I will attempt to educate you on the baseline tools to have a good Discord experience. I will do my best to keep this brief. You need to bear in mind that each class server has its own rules, expectations, and organization, which I will get into later.
You poor, poor souls…
Welcome to Discord. I will be your guide.
Ahoy! I am Don Jose#9643 and I am one of the moderators of the Ravenholdt Discord community; in addition, I have leveled all classes to 110 and at least lurk the majority of other class Discords. I consider myself a casual player because although I do raid, I do not push high M+ keys or compete in any Mythic Raid races. Anybody who knows me or hangs out in Ravenholdt knows that I love helping players, memes, and generally hate RNG.
Note: I welcome all constructive criticism (spare me the “lol ur guide sux” DMs, thanks) and suggestions. You are free to spread this guide to all corners of the Intarwebz; in fact, I encourage it. We are all a part of Discord and how the communities will function and feel.
“A BETTER COMMUNITY STARTS WITH THE SELF.” -Me, 2k17 and probably other inspiring/important people
Discord has a web client (opened in your web browser), a mobile app, and a desktop client (you download and run it like software). The Web Client and PC Client are more or less interchangeable, but the mobile app does have some important differences that I’ll mention where appropriate. This guide is intended to be relatively TL;DR: so I’m not going to walk you through all the functionality of them. If you need/want more information, head to discord’s website: discordapp.com.
To join a Discord community, you will need a link to that specific server community.
Links generally look like this:
https://discord.gg/sCmmg7d
(note the “discord.gg” in the URL. Beware of false URLs!)
Or like this:
https://discord.gg/ravenholdt
Or like this:
Hi, #Outlaw! SND! CONSISTENT. STABLE. FUTURE.
The majority of users will get invitations from guildies, friends, or forums.
On the left side of the web and desktop clients, you will see that server’s channel list. These are the organizational topics of discussion. Keep in mind that these are generally suggestions; players will often go off-topic. That’s one difference between a Discord server and a forum: these are living, breathing, real-time chats that move quickly.
Let’s use Ravenholdt as an example:
At the top, you’ll see the server you are currently on.
FOR MOBILE USERS: On the mobile app, channels are listed when you hit the top left = button.
Below that, you can see channel headers (note the “PLEASE READ” over our #announcements and #resources-and-faq channels)
Spec Discussion – Check Pins
I’ll talk about pins soon. They are very important to universal discord use. If a Discord server has class or spec channels, that is not a guarantee that discussion will always be on-topic. This varies from server to server. Sometimes it’s just where players of that spec congregate.
If a server has a “general” or “off-topic” tab they are often less strictly moderated and feature random discussion topics.
CHECK ANNOUNCEMENTS, RESOURCES, AND RULES FIRST
How individual servers word these channels will be different, but they all have them. You are responsible for the rules of the server, whether you read them or not. If you are ever confused or unclear about the rules, send a direct message to a moderator by right-clicking their name and selecting “message.” This is called Direct Messaging, or “DMing.”
Every discord has moderators. They are always listed at or near the top of the user list, which can be found on the right of the screen.
Again, using Ravenholdt as an example:
You can open or close the member list using the “People” icon, circled. It’s usually open by default. This is the same button/placement on the MOBILE APP.
Sometimes moderators have hierarchies with various titles. In Ravenholdt, our founders and team-leaders have purple names and are referred to (lovingly) as “Despots”.
Many servers have bots. I’m not going to get into them because they vary greatly in functionality and control–but they’re usually there to automate things like Raidbots simming, role/color requests, and so on.
Our moderators are are referred to (equally lovingly) as “Shadowblades”.
It me!
Moderation from server to server varies a lot, but in general, they are there to keep the peace, enforce rules, and be a resource for information (or somebody who can point you to the correct resource). Treat them with respect and you will have it returned, 9.9 / 10 times.
A Note: All mods are not around 24/7. They are volunteers, unpaid (as far as I’m aware), and they are not your personal helpdesk. Please consult the FAQs and the Pinned Messages before you reach out to them about game questions. If you see harassment, or feel like something wrong has occurred in the Discord chat, reach out to them with your concerns immediately. Do not escalate situations. As a final reminder, each Discord server operates independently. What might be considered harassment on Ravenholdt might be totally acceptable on another, so long as it doesn’t violate Discord’s TOS.
If you’ve already gone on Discord you have likely seen push pin emojis and seen people saying “check the pins,” or; “it’s in the pins,” and so on.
What are “the pins?”
They will vary from server to server, but generally they are the most important, up-to-date, and relevant/frequently-asked questions and guides.
FOR MOBILE USERS: The pins are located behind the “…” button in the top right corner of the server.
Note how when you open the pins in #outlaw I have listed relevant links to the guides, as well as a post about the current tier set and an external link to a post about UI Lag Tolerance.
Each channel (such as #outlaw or #pvp) will have its own pinned messages.
BEFORE TYPING ANYTHING CHECK THE PINS!
You are going to get meme’d into orbit if you join a Class Discord and ask a pinned question (ie. a question that is answered in a pinned message). The “regulars” of any community see it happen tens of hundreds of times per day, and it gets really old, really fast, to give the same answer over and over. That’s why pinned messages exist. You are not the first person with your question and you will not be the last.
Imagine being a retail clerk and there’s a sign on your counter that says, “Restrooms are to the left,” but hundreds of times per day customers come in and ask you, “Where are the restrooms?” when you’re busy helping another customer. It’s a similar situation! There’s nothing wrong with having questions, but when you don’t put in that minimum of work/research yourself you just look lazy and entitled.
Why am I being told to ‘Sim It’ or ‘Sim Yourself’?
TL;DR: WoW is a complex game. Legion, in particular, introduced a lot of factors which make it difficult to tell if X talent, gear piece, etc. is superior. Running fight simulations (“simming”) is one of the best tools we have to try and get a more data-driven, accurate answer. WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU IS NOT BEST FOR EVERYONE. Simming is the “most-honest” answer. When people tell you this they aren’t trying to “just get rid of you,” they’re trying to be honest with you and help you get the best answer.
How do I sim?
Sim-yourself is a guide to using SimC (SimulationCraft) which is a powerful but somewhat complicated tool that runs thousands of simulated fights to try and determine your performance (and from that, what is better or worse for you).
If that is intimidating or too complicated, there are alternatives:
How do I become a ‘regular’?
Hang out on a server a lot. Be generally respectful. Don’t brag unless you’ve got logs to back you up (and even still, don’t brag, that’s annoying). Help out others. Have some fun, meme around a little. Have you ever joined a new friend group? It’s like that. Don’t be obnoxious, respect that some of these people have known each other for years, and you will eventually be included into the recognizable community figures/leaders/scallywags.
Why is it so chaotic/spammy? People seem really cranky!
The chances are overwhelming that you logged on to the Discord after a big announcement, PTR datamine, or patch notes. During those times the traffic to class Discords surges tremendously, and things get absolutely wild. Don’t judge the server by those days. Mods will have their hands full and there will be a LOT of people spamming the same questions over and over. Don’t be that person.
Other Resources:
Hero Damage: A website dedicated to the most current trinket, talent, relic, and gear simulations. It’s a great resource to check if you just looted a trinket or relic and have no idea if it’s an upgrade or not.
Ravenholdt: It’s my guide, so I get to plug the rogue website/resource. Ravenholdt is a go-to for various rogue-related content, but also has other guides such as the simming guide I linked above.
Class and Community Discord Links:
Community Discord Servers: A list of links to the current class discord servers. If your server is missing from that list please contact Wowhead to have yours added.
Playing any class at more than just a basic level requires keeping track of timers, procs, charges, and more. It is next to impossible to do this without help and there are several addons that are designed to do this for you. One of the most popular is WeakAuras.
WeakAuras is highly customizable and quite complex but once you have installed the base addon, if you aren’t up to creating your own UI, you can import a WA set created by someone else. Because everyone has different preferences, you may have to try out more than one to figure out what works best for you. Below are links to WAs created by rogues for rogues.
Gray_hound’s WA is an all inclusive package that serves all three specs and switches automatically when you change spec.
Notter’s collection is Assassination oriented but includes both other specs as well.
If you enjoy Infexious Gaming’s videos, you may want to check out his WAs.
Potato has set for each spec.
Mystler also has a nice selection.
If you want to search for more options or specific WAs, Wago.io is a searchable database collection designed specifically for sharing WAs and other similar addon elements.
“Sim yourself.” More often than not, this is the reply that you’ll get when you ask about the best gear to equip or how stats scale for your character. But what does it mean to sim yourself? Why do we care? And, most importantly, how do we do it?
Because of the way that World of Warcraft is dealing with gear in Legion (e.g., a random chance that a new gear drop will be immediately upgraded in various ways), there are so many variables possible that in most cases there is no single Best in Slot. The gear and attributes that are best for you depend entirely on what else you have equipped and what content you are planning to take on. What this means is, if you are interested in optimizing your DPS for the content that you are playing, you will need a method for figuring out exactly how what you have interacts with any new gear that you might acquire so that you can pinpoint which setup will work best for you.
One of the most effective ways of doing this is by using a program called SimulationCraft, often abbreviated SimCraft or even SimC. It’s available as a downloadable program as well as an in-game add on. Once you get used to simming yourself, it’s not difficult – but it does take a little setting up. Another add on called Pawn is very handy for applying what you learned from your sim.
This is a quick and dirty guide to simming yourself to get the most out of your gear.
The first thing that you need to do is download and install SimulationCraft from its official website.
The next thing is to install and enable the SimulationCraft add on, which is available from Curse.
Note: If you don’t want to use the add on, SimCraft can import your data from the Armory. To do this, follow the instructions on SimulationCraft. Be aware that this is often a less optimal method because not only is the Armory occasionally out of date, but also you will need to log in and out of game to update it, which is less convenient than using the add on.
Open SimulationCraft and select the Simulate tab.
Open World of Warcraft, and make sure that your character’s spec, gear, and talents are set the way you want them. In your chat box type /simc.
This will open a box of highlighted code. On your keyboard, press C while holding down Ctrl to copy the code (if you are on a Mac, press C while holding down ⌘).
Return to SimulationCraft and paste (with Ctrl V, or ⌘ V on a Mac) the code into the Simulate window. Note: you can opt to either 1) paste your code after the code that is automatically in the box, or 2) delete the default code and replace it with your pasted code.
Select the Options tab and then the Scaling tab.
Check Enable Scaling.
We are rogues, so under Stats to Scale, select Agility, Crit Rating, Haste Rating, Mastery Rating, and Versatility Rating.
Click Simulate! in the bottom right corner.
It will probably take a little time for your simulation to run; the more powerful your computer, the quicker it’ll be. When it is done, you will see a screen that looks like this:
Scroll down a little. You will see your talents and artifact build along with a whole lot of other lovely data, but there are two things that are of immediate interest.
The first is your estimated DPS. This is just an estimate based on what you have equipped. Can you pull this number in a boss fight? Can you pull more? It doesn’t matter! The only reason that we care about this number is to use it as a baseline.
The second is your Scale Factors. This tells you your Scale Ranking, which is basically what stats are most important with your current build.
As you can see, according to this sim my stat priority at the moment is:
Agility > Versatility > Crit ~=Mastery > Haste
Those priorities are completely customized to me. By comparison, if you look at a reputable rogue DPS guide like Stjern’s, it will tell you:
Agility > Mastery > Versatility > Crit > Haste
His stat priority is a place to start. With my gear and how I am optimized, my stat priority has now changed. This is exactly why no one can tell you what is best in slot for you without a sim.
When you get new gear, equip it, sim yourself again, and check out that estimated DPS. If it goes up, the new gear is probably an upgrade.
Pawn is an add on that works with your sim data to compare items in-game and give you an idea whether or not a piece of loot is an upgrade or not.
Install and enable Pawn, which is available on Curse.
Open World of Warcraft and you will see a Pawn button on your Character pane.
Now go back to your SimulationCraft results and find the Pawn string, which is right after your Stat Ranking. Highlight and copy the Pawn string, including the open and close parentheses and everything in between.
Back in game, click the Pawn button to open the Pawn window. Select the Scale tab.
Click Manual.
You should see a screen with more options. Click Import.
Paste the Pawn string from SimulationCraft into the text box and click Okay.
This will show you your new stat weights. Go back to the Scale tab and make sure that Show this scale in tooltips is checked.
Close the Pawn window. Now, when you look at gear in your bag, you can immediately tell whether or not it is an upgrade based on your sim.
If you prefer to watch and listen rather than read, Infexious has you covered.
Now you have the basics.
All of these tools, and the theories behind them, were created by the WoW theorycrafting community. Theorycrafters use math to analyze game mechanics. This can give us insight into the way the game works, which in turn allows development of these tools and best practices for playing your class and your spec.
And this SimCraft tutorial is just the beginning. If you want to learn how to hot-swap gear to compare sims, learn how to sim relics, or just learn more about SimCraft and theorycrafting, here are a few resources.
For quick simulations you can also use the Raidbots bot in the Ravenholdt Discord. Just type !sim -h in Discord for instructions. For an online solution, check out the Raidbots website.
*Note: I am not going into details what each spell does, if you are curious as to how each spell work. Then check the actual guide here.
You’ve been wondering for quite a while, what am I doing wrong?
Well, instead of asking other people, then I will give you the resources that you need, the find out yourself!
Practically, I’d like to give you an introduction on how to read your own logs, to see where you either waste resources in form of energy, combo points or where you’ve just made a common mistake in your rotation or something a like.
Step 1 – Buffs and debuffs
1.1 – Elaborate Planning
Elaborate Planning is one of the buffs that we want high uptime on.
This is a better example of good uptime of Elaborate Planning. In general you will never be able to get 100% uptime, as you will have to drop the buff for rotation reasons or because mechanics prevent it. In general aim for 80% and above.
1.2 – Rupture
Rupture is our main bleed, and due to that, we want an uptime as close to 100%.
This is what a proper uptime on Rupture looks like. If you have around 98% and above, then you’re doing just fine. But remember only to refresh it during the Pandemic effect period.
1.3 – Garrote
Garrote is a filler bleed, which we want as high uptime on as possible. Note: When you play Exsanguinate, then the uptime on is usually lower
This example is from an Exsanguinate log, so it means that you should atleast have 83% or above on average. Most people actually manage to have +85% with Exsanguinate,
Step 2 – Resource waste
Resource capping comes in two ways mainly as rogue. In form of combo points and energy waste.
2.1 – Combo point waste
Combo point capping is literally a DPS loss. Therefore we want as close to 0 combo points wasted for each individual spell. On the logs shown above, the person wasted 1 combo point on Kingsbane and 25 combo points from Seal Fate. This means that he lost out on a lot of potentional DPS.
Keep wasted as close to 0 as possible! Seal Fate can be tricky to work with!
2.2 – Energy waste
When you can either analyze the numbers as shown under combo points or look at the graph. In general, you are never allowed to energy cap, as it is a DPS loss. Always keep your energy level beneath your cap!
Note: You will always cap at some points, no matter how well you perform. Due to the Urge to Kill.
Step 1 – Buffs and debuffs
1.1 – Roll the Bones
Roll the Bones is Outlaws version of the old Slice n’ Dice.
Roll the Bones is your main buff, this should be as high as your uptime on the boss and even closer to 100% than any other buff, as it’s easy to refresh with such a long duration. Plan ahead!
1.2 – Ghostly Strikes
Practically the only debuff worth noting. Keep this as high as your boss uptime or +99%, but remember only to refresh it during the Pandemic effect period.
Not much to note. Just keep this as high as your boss uptime or +99%.
Step 2 – Resource waste
2.1 – Combo point waste
Combo point capping is literally a DPS loss. Therefore we want as close to 0 combo points wasted for each individual spell. On the logs shown above, the person wasted a lot of combo points on different spells. The only spells that is excused here is Marked for Death and Curse of the Dreadblades.
Keep wasted as close to 0 as possible!
Note: Curse of the Dreadblades will always be very high on wasted combo points
2.2 – Energy waste
When you can either analyze the numbers as shown under combo points or look at the graph. In general, you are never allowed to energy cap, as it is a DPS loss. Always keep your energy level beneath your cap!
Step 1 – Buffs and debuffs
1.1 – Symbols of Death
Symbols of Death is a flat damage amplifer, and therefore we want 100% uptime. There’s no excuse to not have 100% uptime.
This is a perfect played subtlety rogue. Let this be a prime example on Symbols of Death uptime. 100% uptime is not impressive if you cast it with 30 seconds remaining, remember to only refresh it during the Pandemic effect period.
1.2 – Nightblade
Subtletys version of Rupture.
This is a close to perfectly played subtlety rogue. This log is from Graum, however Nightblade fades during the stampede. The player also makes a minor mistake at the end, but despite that the uptime is still a good example what to aim for. Go for +90%! Keep in mind that using fx. 4 combo points Nightblades will not be worth it DPS wise, so plan ahead!
Step 2 – Resource waste
2.1 – Combo point waste
Combo point capping is literally a DPS loss. Therefore we want as close to 0 combo points wasted for each individual spell. On the logs shown above, the player played almost perfectly as a minimum of Shadow Techniques combo points were wasted.
Keep wasted as close to 0 as possible!
2.2 – Energy waste
When you can either analyse the numbers as shown under combo points or look at the graph. In general, you are never allowed to energy cap, as it is a DPS loss. Always keep your energy level beneath your cap!
Note: If you proc Energetic Stabbing a lot, you might energy cap.
Legendaries:
If you don’t have BiS legendaries, then you can’t compete with people who have. So sadly, if you want to play competetive, then you need to obtain a BiS legendary.
RNG:
Debuffs like Blood of the Assassinated also has a giant impact on ranking. Same with combo points from Shadow Techniques. If you don’t believe in RNGesus, then you won’t rank.
Titanforged
Your gear will never be on par with someone elses. It is not the old times where everyone was close to equal. Someone will always have way better gear than you.
Padding
You might simply not be padding the meters enough… However, I do not advise risking your raids performance just to get a rank. Bosses dead > Ranks.
If you wish to go even further into details, knowing that your damage on x spell is good. Then I would recommend comparing your damage to the APL or even sim your own character and compare it to the sim. If your sim has 25 M more damage on Rupture, then you might be doing something wrong.